'Lolly on the Ice' Q&A with Sarah S. Brannen and Mirai Nagasu
The prolific children's book author and the two-time Olympic figure skater chatted about the sport last week in Cambridge, Mass.
Last week I had the pleasure of attending a book release event at Porter Square Books in Cambridge, Mass. for the release of Sarah S. Brannen’s new children’s book “Lolly On The Ice.” Sarah has written and illustrated multiple children’s books over the years, in addition to her work covering figure skating for multiple decades. She was joined by Mirai Nagasu, who in 2008 became the second-youngest woman at the time to win the U.S. national championship. She represented the United States in both the 2010 and 2018 Olympics.
Sarah and Mirai chatted about skating and her book, and took questions from the audience. Below is an edited transcript of their conversation, which Sarah granted me permission to share with you all.
Sarah: I have a number of questions from fans. I asked ahead of time. Does your mind ever wander while you’re skating, and do you ever think about if you turned the stove off before?
Mirai: Uh, wow. Yes, sometimes it’s definitely a disconnect. Sometimes you’re like, ‘Woah, it’s going really well’ during a performance and other times you’re like, “I am in no... I feel like I’m not in control.” I just did developmental camp [following U.S. nationals in St. Louis] and we talked about how our coaches will say, ‘oh, it’s muscle memory,’ and that is not a real thing. And I was like, really? Well, that’s interesting. I’ll probably keep saying muscle memory, use your muscle memory to your skaters and to turn your brain off.
And funny enough that Sarah brought up the stove because one time while I was coaching, I distinctly remember in the middle of the lesson being like, ‘Oh, my God,’ I was making a broth, a soup, and being like, ‘I think I forgot to turn the stove off.’ And in the middle of the lesson, I was like, ‘I have to go right now. I think I forgot to turn the stove off’ and lo and behold, I had actually forgotten to turn it off. So good thing I went home. It does run in the family because my mom recently burnt her kitchen down. The remodel was a long time coming, so there’s always a silver lining to every story.
Sarah: And what’s the weirdest thing your coach ever said to you right before you went out to compete? Was it, ‘Did you turn off the stove before you went?’
Mirai: No. No, it was not. The one I remember most is at the 2010 Olympics, skating last in the final warm-up group with skaters that I had literally grown up watching on TV and being like, ‘Oh my god, like whether this is good or bad, I’m finishing out the freaking Olympics.’ And just not knowing, just being a little frightened, I didn’t know if I was gonna pee myself, or if I was gonna forget how to skate and just being like, ‘oy-oy-oy. I’m so nervous.’
And this is back when AirPods weren’t a thing, so had wired earbuds that connected to an iPod, and Joannie Rochette had just skated, and the music being so loud and everybody being so loud, the cowbells of Canada. And just Frank Carroll being like, ‘smile! smile!’ and me being like, ‘I do not want to smile.’ And that’s the last thing I remember before I told myself to let muscle memory take over, which now I know, over a decade later, it’s not a thing.
Sarah: I was wondering, you went to the Olympics in 2010 when you were 16, and then you went again eight years later. How did having gone once help you when you went back?
Mirai: I don’t know that it helped me. I think that because in 2010 I had such a great time. I felt like I was literally at Disneyland, just taking it all in and really living in the moment as one who is young does. And I think when I went in 2018, I wanted to impress myself, impress the country. The word legacy kept coming up in my journey that year and being like, ‘I do not want to flub this up.’ And I think I put so much pressure on myself, but it meant so much more to me that I understood the weight and because of that, I put so much pressure on myself.
I did have a little bit more on the line in 2010. I was going to do a triple-triple if the first jump was good. In 2018, it was mandatory that I do it. And I wanted to do the triple axel. And a double axel-triple toe, right, Taiga? So I think there was just more on the line because it meant more to me.
Sarah: I really want to know what you think, as we’re watching, especially in men’s skating, they’ve kind of gotten to the level where all the jumps are quads. Ilia Malinin doesn’t really even do triples anymore. Where do you think the limit of the human body is? Apparently he can do a quint, and I think we’re going to see that. But I question at what point it’s really physically impossible.
Mirai: Okay, what do I think? What do I think about the quint and quads? It’s unbelievable. When there were rumors about a quad axel, I was kind of like, ‘okay, I’ll see it when I believe it.’ And lo and behold, there’s a skater out there who’s able to do them, and that is just crazy to me. I think, honestly, the world is in shock and I guess it’s a little bit in his blood, with his parents being Olympians. So I think there was no limit and I bet he’ll talk about that quad axel with very fond memories of having parents teach him and guide him. I can’t really process a quint, kind of like I couldn’t process a quad axel, but I know it’s not in my cards, for my body, but maybe one day I’ll be teaching quads and quad axels, and I think that is exciting. It only takes one person to show the world that it’s possible, and it’s kind of like your book. Sarah. If Lolly hadn’t believed that she could skate on the show, she never would have, right?
Sarah: Well Lolly is based on myself. When I’m skating, usually I’m all by myself, just maybe a couple other adults my age. And sometimes, the competitive kids from the rink next door will come and sit at the top of the risers where it’s warm. And I know they are not there watching me. I know they’re not. And yet, they’re bored, they’re waiting, and they just sort of watch you, because you’re in front of them. And whenever they do that, I can’t do a thing. I just get so nervous, and so I wrote a story about a kid who feels like that. And she gets brave enough to skate in a show and put on a sparkly dress, and I would never do that. Under any circumstances. So she’s braver than I am.
Mirai: You have to tell everyone about your skating journey, how you got into skating. And I mean, you talked about how you are Lolly, but what’s your skating journey?
Sarah: I grew up watching the Winter Olympics. Loved it. And I loved the skating most of all, and then, for the next three and a half years, I would forget it existed, just like most people in this country do. And it was the ‘88 Olympics, with the Battle of the Brians, and Debi Thomas, and I got really obsessed with it, and realized that it is on at other times of the year and started watching it more. And then I had a whole number of revelations. One was that there was a rink just down the road from my apartment, which was the Skating Club of Boston. And they had group classes for adults, and I signed right up and started doing that, and then I had another moment when I realized that the World Championships were going to be in Halifax. And that’s actually quite close, and quite inexpensive, because it was Canada. So I went, and I met Paul Wylie, and met Todd Sand, and Kristi Yamaguchi, who was 18 at the time and then I was just completely hooked after that. I started going to competitions, and I started taking lessons. And I was never any good at it at all. I skated for 35 years, I could hardly do anything. But I loved it all the same. I mean, even just a spread eagle or a spiral, it’s a wonderful feeling. Just that feeling when you’re skating backward fast and you stop and the air kind of wooshes at you, that you had brought with you. I love that one.
Mirai: Maybe you weren’t that bad, though. Tell us about who your favorite coach was and why.
Sarah: Well, my first real coach who taught me a lot was Drew Meekins, who was a friend I had met through being a journalist, and we had become very, very close. My niece was his first student. And he was still competing at the time, and then I worked with Kirk Dowton, who I don’t think any of you would ever have heard of, but he was a very good teacher. He was good with adults. Do you teach adults?
Mirai: Of course. Of course.
Sarah: Adults, are they a pain in the neck? They must have a lot of questions.
Mirai: I love it. It’s different. They want an explanation, and so sometimes when I’m coaching, it’s hard to show something as well as speak. I get out of breath. But I love that they challenge me to find the words to describe the feeling I get when I’m skating. I love the adult circuit too, because it’s just very different. When you go to competitions, I mean, first of all, you can share a drink with them at dinner. And they do this thing called tossies, where they bring something that symbolizes them, and instead of throwing things on the ice, they have the kids with a massive bucket just run by the bleachers, and the other skaters literally throw these things at the kids. And it’s so fun. It’s just fun that... the thing I love about skating is that it’s not one size fits all, but you can make it your own. And I feel like team sports get a lot more hype around them because you’re out there with someone else, but individual skating is also great because you can do it on your own time and when you want to, and I think that people forget that just going out there and exercising is the goal of sport.
Sarah: And not breaking bones.
Mirai: You could do that, too. You could do that, too, if you want to.
Sarah: I did that a lot.
Mirai: Did you really?
Sarah: Yes.
Mirai: How many?
Sarah: My fibula. Skull, my back. Elbow, from skating. I think that’s it.
Mirai: Did it happen so fast or...?
Sarah: I don’t remember when I broke my skull. I don’t remember what happened. I don’t remember any of it. They told me I was doing a back spiral, but the foot, you know, that thing? Yeah. She used to do that. I never did it again after that. But I went over backward, apparently. Um, yeah, I don’t know.
Mirai: Maybe a book about that.
Sarah: That would be a horror story. Does anyone have questions for either one of us?
Q: What’s the dog’s name [on the cover of the book]?
Sarah: Oh, the dog’s name. That was our dog when we were kids. This is my sister, by the way. And that dog’s name was Falstaff.
Q: First, I’m gonna do a comment, and then a question. One, one of my favorite questions of the book is actually the first page when dad says, ‘Oh, it’s slippery.’ She’s like, ‘oh, it’s okay. No one saw.’ That is so smart because she’s actually not afraid of falling at all. The dad being like, ‘oh, be careful, you’re gonna hurt yourself’ and her being like, ‘oh, no, it’s fine. No one saw.’ It’s such a smart thing to set what both those characters are actually concerned about. I love that line. It’s perfect.
And then I wanted to ask, this is more for both of you, Sarah, you’re talking about your trick that you fell on. I’m not an ice skater, I’m a roller skater, but I actually fell on a trick two months ago, and I said, ‘Oh, if I don’t do this in the next 15 minutes, I’m not gonna do it again.’ And I have not done that trick in two months. I’ve been calling it the Twisties, that’s what Simone Biles had called it when you lose a trick.
Sarah: All I can say is skating as an adult, it’s hard. You can hurt yourself.
Q: Kids are so fearless. I’m, like, aware of that.
Sarah: We can hurt ourselves and end up in the hospital, then you can’t work. It’s really difficult. But I would love to hear your thoughts on that, Mirai.
Mirai: Another thing I learned when I was at the developmental campus is that even though you learn an element, every time you do it, it’s like doing it [for the first time]. You don’t learn it and then have it forever. Every time you do it, it’s a little bit different. It’s not like you’re going to go into it at the same angle every time. So hopefully that gives you peace of mind that, you know, it may be the twisties, but as long as you can mentally try again, the likelihood you’ll injure yourself is very low, right?
It’s a new experience, every time, if you think of it that way. I think that falling is inevitable in sport and, depending on the pain, if you break your bone, that’s probably your body...
Q: I literally didn’t even get hurt. Like, I just went down, but I was still like...
Mirai: Well, okay, well, then maybe, maybe you’re fine. I think it’s just about the way you think about it and if you injure yourself, it’s your body’s way of telling you, ‘okay, like, let’s take a break.’ But also, your mind is so strong that if you can get past it, like, for example, I sprained my ankle really badly right before I went for Torvill and Dean[’s farewell tour], and I was holding Taiga, and was so exhausted from coaching, that we have these 3 steps going into our home, and I didn’t see them. And so I sprained my ankle, death by stairs I guess. When I did, my ankle was so swollen that I was like, ‘okay, I think I need to go to the ER,’ which is the first time I’ve ever been to the ER. But as soon as I could get my foot back into my skate, even though the doctor said it was probably best not to skate, I said, ‘okay, well how am I gonna get this swelling out?’
I would say my definition of skating is probably different from the doctor’s. And so I used stuffing my swollen ankle back into my skate as my PT. Because, just to tie it and to get the blood back near my heart, like that was my PT. Also, I didn’t have time to go to real PT, so it’s not probably not the course of action I would recommend, but it definitely helped because I have pictures of the blood, you know, going back up. So because I was wearing my skate, the blood went up here and you could tell that the swelling was definitely getting better because of the skate. So maybe it’s like a different perspective.
Sarah: Don’t try that home.
Q: Sarah, you’ve been covering figure skating for a long time. Mirai, you’ve had a lengthy competitive career. I’m curious, who are the skaters today that you enjoy watching the most?
Sarah: I’m thrilled that [Emilea] Zingas and [Vadym] Kolesnik have made the Olympic team. I just find them just delightful. Yuna Aoki, who just won the Four Continents championships, is one of the most beautiful skaters I’ve ever seen in my life, and she didn’t make the Olympic team, ‘cause that’s, what is happening in Japan? They’re so good. I love all three of the U.S. women on their team. I’m really looking forward to the world getting to know them. I think they’re going to fall in love with them. It’s almost more to do with their personalities than their skating. I mean, they’re wonderful, but they have so much personality and they show it and they’ll say anything at all.
When I started out, skaters were so controlled, and their federations wouldn’t let them say things. Ashley Wagner used to just sort of say anything that came into her head, and then it would be trouble. The agent would call me and yell at me for putting it in. And then she would call me and say, ‘It’s okay, I said it.’ So I love seeing skaters being freer to say what’s on their minds. I think that’s partly social media, so that’s wonderful.
Who else do I love? I have very mixed feelings about the French dance team [Laurence Fournier Beaudry and Guillaume Cizeron] but oh, my goodness, they’re good. The program is so beautiful. The things that hold me back is not the skating. It’s other things. I, personally, love watching Ilia Malinin. I just think it’s incredible. Not only is he the best jumper who has ever lived, but he’s such a performer. I mean, yes, Yuma Kagiyama is a gorgeous, gorgeous skater, and I love him too. But I think you can’t deny Ilia. He’s like... It’s like an order of magnitude over where anyone’s ever been. It’s so exciting. So, I could go on with it.
Mirai: Not to make this about myself, but I think every time Nationals comes around, I’m a little bit sad because it was such a huge part of my life for so long. But then, as soon as I get over it... and I think that, the last group of the women’s at the U.S. championships did that for me, where I wasn’t thinking about how much I missed competing, because the skating was so good, and it’s always so exciting. I mean, Sarah is clearly an ice dance fan, but for me, it’s all about the jumps and you know, seeing those last six women just lay down program after program and clean programs are really freaking hard. So just for them to lay it all out there, and even when they’re not watching the performance before them or they go out of their way to ignore the score, there’s no denying that they know, they know how the other person skated or the whole group, honestly, based on the crowd’s reaction. You can feel the energy that’s tangible in the air and to feel that through my TV screen was really exciting. So hopefully that is the type of event we’ll get at the Olympic Games. When they flop, it’s not as great of an event. So I just want to see them all go out there and lay it all down.
Q: Speaking of that last group, you were teammates with Bradie [Tennell] in 2018. So what was it like to see her skate 8 years later?
Mirai: She is definitely a warrior, and she’s a fighter, and I think she should be so proud of her performances. The short program call was a little tough, I think. But she trains like a beast, and there are other skates at nationals that didn’t quite reflect that, and I would see her -- she would come to train at the rink where I was coaching, and I’d be like, ‘oh my gosh. You look really good.’ And there’s that disconnect between how well you’ve trained to how you compete. You don’t always compete the way you’ve been training. And so for her to lay it down like she did, I think that she should be so proud of herself and, and regardless of whether she made it or not, I think she should know she put her best foot forward and that’s all she could have done.
Sarah: Speaking of 2008, it occurs to me just now that you won your first, your U.S. title in 2008. Evan Bates won his first U.S. medal in 2008 and 18 years later, he’s still competing. I was sort of looking at those nationals and I was like, ‘Wow.’
Mirai: Ice dance is definitely a different discipline.
Sarah: He was 18 or so, so he was like a man, you were a little kid [in 2010], but imagine if you had never stopped, 18 years later, you were still going, going to your fifth Olympics.
Mirai: Aljona Savchenko did.
Sarah: That’s true. She did. I don’t know how...
Mirai: I don’t think five Olympics were ever gonna be in the cards for me. And that was okay. I knew that, and I mean, my life is very rich. I love skating. I love helping kids fall in love with skating. I have a son who is obsessed with hockey and, you know, things are ever changing, the rules of skating are changing. I just take it one day at a time.
Sarah: So he’ll be going to the 2042 Olympics? 2046 Olympics?
Mirai: I don’t know. He is definitely charismatic.
Want to meet Sarah and talk about her book or skating? There are still multiple opportunities to see her on her ongoing book tour, including Sunday in Plainville, Mass., when she’ll be appearing with former Team USA ice dancer and author Karina Manta.
And “Lolly on the Ice” is now available wherever books are sold, including Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Bookshop.org.